Skip to content

Conversation

@prabau
Copy link
Collaborator

@prabau prabau commented Jan 28, 2026

New theorem: Locally orderable => radial.

Plus some metaproperties for Radial. I added "not preserved by products" because it was not initially obvious, and could be surprising to some.

This theorem allows to derive two more spaces are radial: S40 (altered long ray) and S196 (long circle),
and two more spaces are not locally orderable: S109 (Novak space) and S110 (strong ultrafilter topology).

@prabau
Copy link
Collaborator Author

prabau commented Jan 28, 2026

One could shorten the proof of the thm by just saying Radial is a "local property" (which is being proved as part of the theorem here) and using LOTS => radial. I just went with this longer way.

@prabau prabau marked this pull request as draft January 28, 2026 01:17
@prabau prabau added the theorem label Jan 28, 2026
@prabau prabau marked this pull request as ready for review January 28, 2026 01:20
@yhx-12243
Copy link
Collaborator

yhx-12243 commented Jan 28, 2026

Looks T774~T777 seem to be preserved by #1426?

@prabau
Copy link
Collaborator Author

prabau commented Jan 28, 2026

good point. I'll change the number.

@prabau
Copy link
Collaborator Author

prabau commented Jan 28, 2026

The metaprop that Radial (P172) is a "local property" is simple enough, so there should be no need to justify it with a mathse post or a reference to some book/paper.

Based on that, one could just shorten the justification of the theorem to the following:

This follows from the fact that {P172} is a "local" property,
and {P133} spaces are {P172}
[(Explore)](https://topology.pi-base.org/spaces?q=LOTS%2B%7ERadial).

Would that be preferable?

@Moniker1998
Copy link
Collaborator

@prabau to me, yes

@Moniker1998
Copy link
Collaborator

@prabau actually, why the quotation marks?

@prabau
Copy link
Collaborator Author

prabau commented Jan 28, 2026

because we have not defined what it means. It could mean different things in general. In this case, it's referring to what is spelled out as one of the meta-properties, but I did not feel like repeating all that. If that's too terse, we may as well give more details about the proof.

Note: @StevenClontz has suggested that in the future there will be some kind of dictionary of often used terms in pi-base. If that happens, we can better define what we mean and have links to suitable definitions.

@felixpernegger
Copy link
Collaborator

felixpernegger commented Jan 28, 2026

A property being "local" is a well defined notion (at least in Algebra(ic Geometry) and apparently also in topology), so the quotes are not necessary.

A rather rudimentary formalisation of this in Lean would be

def IsLocal.{u} (P : (X : Type u) → TopologicalSpace X → Prop) : Prop :=
  ∀ (X : Type u) [i : TopologicalSpace X], P X i ↔ ∀ x : X, ∃ s ∈ 𝓝 x, P s instTopologicalSpaceSubtype

:)

@yhx-12243
Copy link
Collaborator

π-base wiki Conventions and Style has already specify how local properties means.

@felixpernegger
Copy link
Collaborator

felixpernegger commented Jan 28, 2026

π-base wiki Conventions and Style has already specify how local properties means.

Technically this only says given a property P, what (weakly) locally P means, but not the notion of a property being (weakly) local. Probably should be added.

@felixpernegger
Copy link
Collaborator

Having: "This property is (weakly?) local." might be useful as a metaproperty in general actually

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment

Labels

Projects

None yet

Development

Successfully merging this pull request may close these issues.

5 participants